Who has to stand?

[rootbeer1]

A recent post by Randy (lostncove) on chivalry and politeness reminded me that back when I took public transportation to work, and especially when I was hobbling around on crutches, I'd often watch to see who on a bus or train would give up their seat to what people, for what reasons. I came to no conclusions, but I did come up with my own personal calculus of priority seating (leaving aside people in wheelchairs, who have their own seats):

Someone in obvious medical distress (heart attack, burst appendix, water breaking/labor, blood gushing from their anus) takes precedence over everyone else. (The bus is going to stop, anyway, while an ambulance is summoned.)

People who are disabled or who cannot stand normally, or have leg injuries, such as those on crutches or walkers.

Seriously pregnant women (who appear close to their due date) come next.

Then people who have difficulty standing, such as those who have to use canes.

After that comes the frailer elderly, such as people over 80 or 85.

Then women who are obviously pregnant, if not quite at their due date.

Then a parent (mother or father) carrying a baby.

After that comes senior citizens, over 65 or so, who are healthy and can otherwise appear to stand without trouble (and thus don't fit the above categories).

After that comes people in emotional distress -- someone who is crying and obviously upset, for example.

Then comes people who might not quite be senior citizens, but are obviously a bit older than me and deserving of respect. This is especially true if they look like they are tired and can use a seat.

Then come healthy younger people who could use a seat -- someone with luggage, toddlers, or a lot of packages, for instance.

I'd give up my seat for anybody in the above categories, although there's probably a few I'm missing. I do think it's presumptuous to give up a seat to a woman just because she's a woman, and therefore it's being assumed that she is weaker. Or to someone with gray in their hair because I assume they're a senior citizen and therefore too frail to stand. There are people younger than me who are far grayer than I am.

Of course, the polite thing for an able-bodied adult to do is to decline the seat politely: "Thank you, but I can stand."

Comments

[fingertrouble.livejournal.com]

it's a difficult one - I've become far more sensitive about it since my partner started sometimes using a cane - but I've always given up my seat for the elderly or pregnant (the latter can be difficult because of the possible offence offering a large lady the seat when she's not pregnant).

It does annoy me when obviously able people let John stand, even with a cane - he actually looks a lot older than 61 too - the people younger than me really don't care. Also I tend to give my seat up equally for older guys as older women; I find that the old guys get left to stand and the old women get the seats, which I don't understand...both should have a seat!

People under 65 who can stand, or people with a lot of luggage or packages I tend to think can stand. Those with children I have given seats for; although in the same way it's self inflicted, it's not the child's fault...(I don't believe in automatic rights for parents; unlike the elderly they should earn it by bringing up kids well, the kids I see are brought up terribly so...)

[muckefuck.livejournal.com]

You better believe that when my lover's health starts failing (he's 62 now and has just been diagnosed with cancer) I'm going to have no compunction about shaming those little bastards into yielding their seats for him. He's so old school, he'd rather die than ask for himself.

[timbear.livejournal.com]

I think you've probably nailed it there, but the key is that when we were children this kind of behaviour was taught to us by example of others and by the expectations and instructions of parents/siblings/peers. That doesn't seem to happen these days.

Which annoys me since I'm getting to the age now where I'm kind of hoping young people will offer me a seat ...

[fuzzygruf.livejournal.com]

I also look at how far back on the vehicle they are. Did they bypass the dozen or more senior/disabled seats? Did they enter the bus at the back door? Did they push their way past other people to get onto the vehicle? How many people less than half my age didn't give up their seat to them? (Sometimes telling a youngster, "You need to give your seat to this old buzzard person.")

Having been on crutches, I encountered LOTS of nice people. The only people never to give up a seat were women in their fifties.

Stand vs sit

[ursusarctos.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a reasonable, polite, and sensible set of rough criteria for being socially appropriate. I was always told that it's not a matter of being "proper", but doing simple things to make living in close quarters easily.
I do get some funny looks for holding doors open for people as I see fit. I'm old skool that way. A good percentage thank me. Some look startled, but the huge majority make eye contact and smile.
Standing, hmmmm. Go back to elementary school. Remember that the cheese always stands alone (in case someone cuts it.)

[muckefuck.livejournal.com]

It's a delicate negotiation with the elderly, isn't it? My upbringing compels me to offer my seat to anyone over about 60 or so, but now that the baby boomers are moving into that bracket, I'm always worried about offending someone. How much do you insist? I was always taught it was polite to refuse an offer of help at least once, so I'm never sure when to take refusals at face value.

I'm getting to an age where I'm less willing to give up my seat to all and sundry than I used to be. Part of it's the worsening back problems, and part of it's the resentment at these hale and healthy whippersnappers everyone else is complaining about. It's hard not to feel like deference is a kind of non-monetary Social Security that we've all paid plenty into but won't be able to draw much out of in the years ahead.

[kitchenbeard.livejournal.com]

The scene : NYC Subway.

I get on and sit down across from Handomse Guy. Doors close. I commence staring at him. We go to the next stop.

Doors open Enter Massively Pregnant Woman. Like, she's gonna drop any second. She stands in front of Handsome Guy. He looks at her and scowls and commences to read his NYT.

I stand up, tap her on the shoulder and give her my seat. She gives a sigh of releif and as she sits down says "You'd be surprised how many people wouldn't do that." I shrug and keep my back to Now Not So Handsome Guy.

Next Stop. 42nd St/Times Sq. I get off and am making my way to the exit. I feel someone swat me on the shoulder and it';s him and has he shoves past me he says "Thanks for making me look bad asshole."

I stop dead in my tracks gaping.

[rootbeer1.livejournal.com]

I'm flabbergasted!

[jarlsberg71.livejournal.com]

can I take this in a wrong direction if I want to give up my seat to a guy I want to be eye level with my butt or crotch?